Salesian Spirituality: It Fits Me

This week on the Open Seat we welcome Fr. David Whalen, OSFS, discussing his journey and experiences in religious life as an Oblate of St. Francis. Father Dave talks about his background, career, and various roles as an Oblate, from teaching and serving as a high school principal to being the Provincial. He provides insights into Salesian spirituality, emphasizing its fitting and challenging aspects. He also offers advice for those beginning their faith journey, shares the importance of prayer, and the need for humility in understanding that one could always be wrong. 

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Open Seat es un podcast Parroquia de la Sagrada Familia ubicada en Adrian, Michigan. Somos un pueblo católico, no un lugar, que se esfuerza por vivir a Jesús celebrando los sacramentos y formando discípulos en Adrian y más allá.

Transcript

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Salesian spirituality fits for me. It fits not because it, it lets me off, It challenges me enough to try and be a better person every day. It challenges me enough to try to be aware of the presence of God every day, but it does it in a nice way. Welcome to Open Seat, the podcast where we create a space for authentic conversations about faith, unfiltered and unapologetic. Here, we believe that every story matters. Whether you're questioning, seeking, or steadfast in your beliefs, you'll find something relatable in these heartfelt discussions. So grab your seat, get comfortable, and let's dive into today's story here at Open Seat. Today in the open seat, we have Father Dave Whalen, OSFS, joining us Thank you, sir, for joining us. It's my pleasure. we have had minimal interactions with you here at the parish. You've come and helped teach some classes. You've come in and done some confessions. Why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are? as you said, my name is Father David Whalen. I was born at a very young age. That's supposed to get a laugh. I'm glad to hear that you were born at a young age, you know? a place called Lockport, New York, Lockport, New York. Niagara Falls, and Buffalo form a bit of a triangle. And, so I was born in Lockport, entered the community from Lockport. I have been all over the place. I started out, as we all did in those days, I started out in Childs, Maryland. Washington, D. C. interesting thing, I was in Washington the day that President Kennedy was assassinated. and I remember that as if it were yesterday, unfortunately. graduated from Niagara University. Did student teaching in Philadelphia. Went back to Washington for theology. after theology, I went to St. Francis for three years. Then I was principal in Salt Lake City for 7 years Then I was in Toronto for 20 years as a, quote, scholastic master. But I also, I got my doctorate there and I was working in the university there Came back to Toledo for, 8 years as provincial. Then 10 years as pastor. And now I am what they call senior status Senior status means they trust you to blow the candles out, but not to light them. Well Senior status also just means you're repurposed, because, you're not retired. No, I do not like the word I mean, I have as full a schedule as I can handle. Right now, I teach Latin to our 7th and 8th grade. Mondays and Thursdays, I'm at Rosary Care Center on Sundays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays. I'm at the Visitation Monastery the first full week of the month. and then I'm at St. Francis in our campus ministry office on Wednesday afternoons, so that's as full as I can do right now. It's not as full as I would like to do, you know, but I am beginning to realize that, the word no is slowly coming into my vocabulary. It's not in my mind, but, I'm realizing that there are times when you have to say no. The spirit is willing. The body is weak. Exactly. what was your favorite ministry that you've done? difficult one to answer because I can, answer it in the reverse order, that I've never done anything that I, didn't like doing. I was, surprised with some of it. when I was in Salt Lake City, for example, and Fr. Paul Grail, called And said, we want you to go to Toronto And I said, why? And he said, we would like you to be involved in formation. That was a, that was scary thing. I was going from a diocese where there were 30 priests in the diocese of Salt Lake City. I knew every one of them. I was president of the priest council. I was the representative from the diocese to the broader thing. And I was going into another country Yeah. That, the city was bigger than the state, so that was scary when I first got there. And my first year there was, was rough, trying to adjust to it. When I left there, the tears flowed down my face, so I've loved everything I've done. I have never been involved in a ministry that I did not fall in love with. And to say which one would, was higher or lower, I would be not telling the truth. It's probably like picking your favorite child, right? That's an easy one Cause I don't have any. Well, a chance to do? Again, I can't think of it. I have been involved in education most of my life. I started out as most of our guys did, by teaching at the high school level. Then I became a high school principal. When I went to, Canada, I was chaplain for the first two years at a Christian Brothers school, and then they offered me the job in the Faculty of Theology at St. Michael's. And the policy was, at that time, that you had to have at least what they call a dual master's degree. And I had three master's degrees. But what I discovered is they really wanted a D somewhere in there, D min. I started the doctoral thing. I love working with ideas. I loved working with the adults. I loved working with people who were involved in ministry. it was kind of the apex of the time in Toronto, so I really truly did love that. When I came back, I didn't expect to be provincial, and I, made no provision for it, so when we came back per chapter and I got elected, I thought, now what do I do??So I had to go back and resign and then moved to Toledo. That was a difficult thing to start, And there were parts of it I did not like. But, what I did like is getting to know our men, in a type of respectful intimacy, is the only way I could describe it. So, part of the role of the provincial is that you meet with everybody once a year, and you try to engage in a conversation that's beneficial both for you and for the other person, and as a result of it, you just grow. There's just no way that you can do that and not come away and say, Wow, we got some pretty good guys in the office, so. I think of anything that I didn't like. I'll take that back. I had to do a lot of legal work at one point in time when I was provincial. I know very little about canon law. I know a great deal about canon law now. but having to sit down and, put all that together. That was a little bit tough. everybody went home and I would stay in the office until 10 o'clock at night and try to figure out how to go there to there. That was not particularly exciting. But other than that, I've enjoyed everything I'm doing. And even now, Strange as it may be, going from high school to graduate school to 7th and 8th grade, I have no difficulty that. one of the things that you alluded to that I find absolutely fascinating about religious life is you're just a somebody in the fold of all the brothers and then you get elected provincial And now you're in charge of everybody. And then you go back into the fold of somebody, How does the mindset happen like that where you're just like emerge go back, because usually when someone becomes a Dignified person we put them in a higher status class wise That's just not part of religious life. I was on our general council for, six years or something like that. That was a unique experience, because, I was working with our Father General and the other counselors, and I got to see Oblates around the world, and I grew from it, there's no question about it. And then the term was over, and it's over, that's it. so I said, I did not plan to be elected provincial, because I made no provision when I left Toronto to come to chapter. And as we started to go through, I thought, Something may be happening here. Don't vote for me. Don't vote well, no, I wouldn't say that because then that's selfishness, But, when I became provincial, I gave it everything I possibly could. and all of these things in religious life are timed, And when that is over with, it's over. And the bigger thing is that you're a part of the community, and whether you are the provincial here, or you're washing dishes here, or you're driving a car here, or you're teaching a Latin class there, they are all part of this one circle, I don't know if that makes any sense to you. It is different. For example, with, say with, a bishop, the bishop is, ordained a bishop and is going to be a bishop forever, officially he has to submit his resignation to the Holy Father at 75, but apparently the Holy Father has been letting some of them stay on for a few more years after that. Same thing is at the parish. you have to submit your resignation to the Toledo diocese at 75 I got to 78 before they caught me, so. I know you've taught some RCIA classes. in the church, I think we're in a, a, more fruitful time than other times in the past. statistically we're looking at a little bit of growth. So what advice would you give to somebody who's just starting their faith? there's several things that come to mind. One is be honest, You cannot form any kind of a relationship unless there's honesty. I used to do this with, marriage counseling, I would say if you lie now, because you think you're going to please somebody, it's going to come back and haunt you and so you're at a point now where you can be ruthlessly, honest. And I would say the same thing. If you are going to walk into the faith then first of all, just be honest. And that honesty can be strongly in favor of something, it can be strongly against something, but at least you know where you're, coming from. That's number one. Number two is, remember it's a journey. my faith journey will be over about 15 minutes after I'm dead, and to think that I can end it all, or I can put it all together nice and neatly at this point in time. It just isn't true, So those are the two things that would strike me. It's been interesting over the years to walk with people who are going on this whole faith journey thing. Because people come from different backgrounds, different experiences, some people are reluctant to take another step because they're afraid. Some people feel they got the Holy Ghost in them and they're going right to point, you know. Uh huh. And that's all part of it. I suspect that each one has a somewhat of a unique story. I think, of our Catholic faith is it has room for a lot of different stories. it's not a question of this is what you have to be, point blank, No, there's room for a lot of different stories. And the beauty of it is, all those stories meld together. That makes me think of something. I am dual citizen of the United States and Canada. very proud of it, by the way. Is that due to your 30 years in Toronto? Yeah, see, I didn't think I was coming back. And Canada has no difficulty with dual citizenship. And I reached a certain point where I thought, I don't want to give up my American citizenship, but I know more about what's going on here, and I want to have a voice here, so I took out dual citizenship. the United States built it's, ethos around the melting pot thing. So whatever you were, you came in and it all went in and you got, Canada built it on the quilt. and so all these other various ethnic backgrounds are just part of a beautiful quilt. that is Canada. And I think of the church in that way, that the church has room for, a whole variety of people, variety of experiences, a whole different, set of, of, expectations. But in this beautiful quilt called the Catholic Church, that's a great vision. It also ties into St. Francis de Sales who talked about, university. Yeah. I don't, I can't say the word, but anyway. The basic notion is you can be united and you can have individuality going on at the same time. time and that's not always the case and that's what I love about the stories as you were talking about, everybody comes from different backgrounds and instead of creating One melting pot, one section of us. we allow everyone to be their individual, devotions or their whatever, and then we work to form a beautiful tapestry. what about Salesian Spirituality attracts you. Everything. it really does. but it's taken a long time for that happen. I went to a high school where our men taught. And so bits And pieces of it were part of it. When I entered the community, I entered the community, a long time ago. interesting bit of trivia. There were 40 of us who made our first profession of vows 62 years ago. I'm the only Really? They're all up there somewhere, but I'm the only one left of that group. So over the years, bits and pieces of it you pick up, so it would be difficult for me to identify one particular part of it. and at a certain point in time, it becomes so much a part of you that I can't think of it being anything else. I am Irish Catholic on both sides, my mother's family were from County Kerry. she was actually born in the United States, but her sister was born in Ireland. My grandmother was born in, Ireland. My father's family was from Cork. I don't know any other way of being, than to be Irish Catholic, which means we pray a lot, we swear a lot, We drink a lot, we fight a lot. we make up a lot, and we go to mass, and then we say what we think about the priest, and then we go to mass again. Then we go to confession. It's part the Irish it would be the same thing with the whole Salesian thing, I don't know of another way of living, than the way I'm living right now. And it fits me, I have, in my later life, developed a real appreciation for the founder of our community, Father Brisson. I'm reading him every day, most every day, today probably won't be because I won't get back in time. But I just watch this man develop, and I think, I know exactly what you're going going through. What was the best piece of advice you received in your life? Fr. Tom McNamara, God rest his soul, said to me Be good to me, them good to them the way going up because you'll meet them on the way coming down. and again, that fits into our whole thing. if you're not careful, you can get a certain. Headiness, When you're in a position. When you're the principal of the school, for example, and you can say, No, this is going to go there, and that's going to get, You can get this little headiness headiness, and so yeah, you may today, be able to say, Stand up, sit down, fight, fight, fight. Tomorrow, somebody's going to say to you, stand up, down, fight, fight, fight, What's your favorite part of religious life? Because there's a lot of aspects to it, right? a challenging part? Oh, the challenging part is to be what I, profess to to be Salesian spirituality as it's come down to us in the Oblate thing is a strongly interior that's challenging, The essence of Salesian spirituality is to go no more than 15 minutes an hour, without an active awareness of the presence of God. And so, that's why, it's in our, what we call our rule. That there's aspirations that are made every 15 minutes. So that I don't go more than 15 minutes without being actively aware of the presence of God. That's tough. Do you have little things that remind you? I know some of the younger Oblates I know have set alarms back at St. Pius we have a, clock that, know. Chimes off the thing. After doing this for some 60 some years, I'm somewhat conscious of it. But that's a great challenge The challenge is to be as actively aware of the presence of God as I can be in the course of the day. That's a good thought for all of us. us the simple essence of Salesian spirituality is don't forget who you are. No matter what happens, don't forget who you are. You are literally made in the image and likeness of God. If God wants to know what he looks like, he looks at You if he's going to look at me, I got to keep that mirror a little cleaner than I would like to at times, you know. and that's what I'm trying to do with spirituality. So, is there a favorite thing you have about Salesian spirituality? Because we talked about the challenge now. Is there a favorite part of it? it fits. I know that's a strange thing to say, but it fits me. Now, would something else fit me? Would it fit me to be Benedictine? Would it fit me to a Diocesan? I don't know, because I haven't been there. But this fits, It's like the comfortable shoes, you know, you say, well, maybe I should get a new pair of shoes, but I like these, they fit. Salesian spirituality fits for me. It fits not because it, it lets me off, It challenges me enough to try and be a better person every day. It challenges me enough to try to be aware of the presence of God every day, but it does it in a nice way. It says, David, I know, you're old, so I'm not gonna hit you, you but remember it's time to make an aspiration. Uhhuh. Thank you. We'll do it Uhhuh. it fits, but it's also still challenging, which is very difficult to find right now. I think, when I talk to people. It's like, oh, I'm Catholic because this is the way I grew up, or blah, blah, blah. But then you say to them, so like, why? And we can't answer that question. You, on the other hand, can, because it continues to grow with you The one thing, and it's interesting you mentioned that, because I think it's really true. Today, more so than in, than when I came up, you are what you are by choice. If you're Catholic, you're Catholic by choice. In the old days, it didn't happen that way. I mean, I grew up, they're just Catholics all over the place. Every time you turned around, there were Catholics. the city of Lockport has 25 Thousand people. We had five active churches in my own parish, which is now up for closing. we had three Catholic schools, all taught by women in black dresses with men's names, Um, but that was, it was just all part of the thing so I never thought of the possibility of anything else That's not the truth today. The choices out there are so strong, if you are a Catholic in more than name only, it's by choice and to make a choice to be part of something that limps a lot more than you would want it to limp that's a real faith. I give The people who, again, like the people last night who were in the OCIA program, who are, saying, we would like to be Catholic I give them a tremendous amount of credit. It's not the thing to do. we've got, messes in the church, that are not attractive. So as I say, You are what you are by choice. and not simply because that's happened. And that's a very different way it was in the past, I think most people who came into the church in the past knew somebody and there is some truth in that. But what I'm finding in talking to a lot of the newer people is they are well read. They have done a lot of research. they know a lot about the church instead of just like, Oh, my girlfriend's in the church so I need to join for this reason. Or. To get married, those kinds of things. But these people are well educated that are coming into the church. And breath of fresh air. and I think it calls us who have been in the church on the carpet, because a lot of times we grow up doing these things out of habit but they know the reasons behind it and they're not afraid to say it. And so when you say people are out of choice, yeah. And they know what they're talking about. I think the point, choice is the big thing. and that is, it's very clear to me, and it's very clear in another areas also. what would have been, expected, common, has all fallen apart. I'll Use another example of it, and I have to be careful but, people who stay in marriage are staying there because of choice. in the old days there wasn't a choice. and so, marriage that could have split, wouldn't split because the, reaction on the part of people would have been bad, or in many instances the woman simply couldn't survive it. now they can. and when you stop making choices, you become dead inside, and again, and you make choices up into your, I mean, I'm in my 80s, and into that, yeah. is there anything else you'd like to share with us? Oh my gosh, pray. and I, and, that might sound, typical to say, but I would say it. Pope Francis has said this over and over again. uh, rediscover at least your symbolic knees. I can't get down and kneel anymore. I've fallen twice, Tried to do it. And It's very embarrassing to have an altar server try to pull you up when you've fallen over. but symbolically, we need to pray. and I would say that, I don't care how you pray, and I'll give it one other thing. Go on the assumption that, you could be wrong. when I was in Toronto, I used to, on Sundays, I used to go to a place called Allen Gardens. Which was a beautiful, botanical thing. But it was also a gathering of every group of people you could possibly imagine. young couples, with a baby would be going through with the stroller. Older people would be there. some of the derelicts would be there. And, they had, a place where street preachers could preach. They got, half hour to preach and it was scheduled I was there one Sunday and this gentleman was giving a sermon on the length of Satan's chain. and he went on and on and I kept saying to myself, Waylan shut up. Do not say anything. Do not say anything. And of course I don't listen to myself. So at the end he said, Do any of you have any questions? And I said, Get you And I said, Is it possible you could be wrong? he exploded And He exploded at me. He said, but You could be the devil! I said, Still, same question, Is it possible you could be wrong? I think that's an important question to, to hold. If I can say it's possible I could be wrong, then we can continue to have a conversation, If I'm convinced that I have the answer long before the question has been finally formulated, there's no conversation that can go on between us. So, just start out with the assumption, it's possible. You could be wrong, it's possible. I know that I could be wrong. I cannot thank you. You've shared a lot of wisdom with us today and we appreciate you coming in and sharing with us. I appreciate invitation, I'm flattered, you you know. Well, we're grateful to all our listeners and all those who view the podcast. I think that, you are exactly what we talk about on this podcast, authentic, unfiltered conversations. And I think the church needs to have a few more of them. Once again, we thank you for joining us today. We hope that wherever you find an open seat in your life, you will invite someone to join you.