Open Seat: A Holy Family Podcast

Making of an Oblate Part 2: Salesian Spirituality in a Changing World

• Holy Family Adrian • Season 1 • Episode 16

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In this episode of Open Seat, we continue the conversation with the Fr. Mike Newman, OSFS, as he shares his journey of faith, from his early years of teaching to his involvement in what would become Holy Family Parish. You will hear Fr.Mike's passion for languages, biblical studies involving monsters, and, of course, Salesian Spirituality. We explore the challenges and blessings of living a faith-centered life in today's changing world, serving as the Assistant Privincial for the Oblates of St. Francis de Sales as well as an inspiring and dynamic pastor in Adrian, Michigan. Join us for an authentic conversation about navigating faith and fostering a spirit of community in a modern world.

This is a podcast of Holy Family Parish, located in Adrian MI. We are a Catholic people, not a place, striving to Live Jesus through celebrating the sacraments and forming disciples in Adrian and beyond.

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Open Seat es un podcast Parroquia de la Sagrada Familia ubicada en Adrian, Michigan. Somos un pueblo católico, no un lugar, que se esfuerza por vivir a Jesús celebrando los sacramentos y formando discípulos en Adrian y más allá.

Fr. Mike:

here we have a group of people trying to follow Jesus In a culture that is ambivalent towards it, you know, at best and hostile towards it at worst. So what does that look like for us?

Katie Love:

Welcome to Open Seat, the podcast where we create a space for authentic conversations about faith, unfiltered and unapologetic. Here, we believe that every story matters. Whether you're questioning, seeking, or steadfast in your beliefs, you'll find something relatable in these heartfelt discussions. So grab your seat, get comfortable, and let's dive into today's story here at Open Seat. Well today on the podcast in the Open Seat, we have the very Reverend Michael E. Newman, OSFS. You have been with, well, St. Mary of Good Counsel for a long time, since you were ordained,

Fr. Mike:

right? Well, before I came in 2007. I was then a student at the University of Toronto, St. Michael's College, where all the Oblates at that point went from our province to study theology. And we could do field placement, or we could do clinical pastoral education, CPE. And CPE is actually the one you probably should do. Like it's how you do hospitals and stuff that. But I said, I'm never going to be a pastor. I'm never going to be in a parish. I'm going to be teaching high school Spanish until I die. So, I want to do migrant ministry, see if I'm any good at it. And at that point, St. Mary Good Counsel where the Oblates were in Adrian, did migrant ministry. And St. Mary Good Counsel had this other priest living here, Father Bob Schramm, God rest him, who was very liturgical, what an innovator. And I couldn't understand a blessed thing he did, why he did what he did, I had no idea. And I thought, I need to understand this. Because so many times people do something in liturgy or in life and we just judge them. Or we say, they're unorthodox, they're a heretic, and we don't we don't look at the why. And I just thought, I want to understand the why. So I called Bob up, and I said, Bob, I'd like to come to St. Mary of Good Counsel for the summer. I want to do migrant ministry. I also want to learn from you about your unique liturgical style, because I just don't know anything about this and I'm judgey. He goes, well, great. I'd love to have you. So I come in for the summer. It's 2007 and I was here from May up until about August when I left. And it was a wonderful summer. I mean, we were at the migrant fields, same ones we go to now. We were there multiple times a week. Eric Jorge, who's one of our Oblate priests in South America was here. So we became friends. I met all the Hispanic community here, did a lot there, taught English during the summer, worked with migrants, worked with our own people here. It was very powerful. Made a lot of friendships I still have today. Just very powerful. So when it came two years later for ordination, I called Bob back. I said, I'm being ordained a priest. I'm going to be in Toledo at St. Francis teaching Spanish and religion. Would you like help at your bilingual Mass? Because he didn't like saying it, It can be stressful and it's foreign and I said, I'd be happy to do it. He's like, really? I said, yeah. I said, when do you want me to start? How about next week? So I said, well, give me two weeks after the ordination and we'll do it. And so during the week, then I would teach during the week, and then I would come up here on Sunday and I would say the bilingual Mass. And then at that point, Sacred Heart, we had a priest there, Father Gaberly. And so he found out and he said, you know, we have these dairy farms in Hudson. Would you consider coming out at night and saying Mass and doing some catechesis with the dairy farmers? Not every weekend, but a couple times a month. So I'm like sure that's fine. So at one point then, we do

mass here at 11:

45 and then I would go to Tim Hortons and grade papers and eat lunch and then drive to Hudson and we would do Mass and then catechesis and dinner and I go get back to Toledo at 10 o'clock and, and you know. So this is a couple years and it was great. I loved it but yeah, I've been involved here 15 years. Quinceañera year.

Katie Love:

Oh, I think there's a party coming. When I hear you talk about the way it used to be, some of that is similar to how it is now. I don't know if people know this, but you're the chaplain at Siena still.

Fr. Mike:

Right. The chaplain at Siena Heights University.

Katie Love:

So you have some obligations to them.

Fr. Mike:

Yep.

Katie Love:

I don't know who tapped you, but someone did tap you to do Mass out at the dairy farms. Well, Sacred Heart in Hudson.

Fr. Mike:

Yes, our vicariate wanted to go back. The dairy farms were closed, and so all the migrants who were there went somewhere else. But they recently reopened, and so the thought was, could we do Mass out there again? And I said, let's try it. We'll do an experimental on basis. So once a month right now I go out there on a Saturday night and it's basically the same thing as before. We have Mass at seven, not really much catechesis at this point because the kids all speak English so they're, you know, in regular faith formation, but, you know, it's mass and then it's dinner, and the dinner is just as important. You know, meeting the families as the church. But yeah, so that's one Saturday night a month.

Katie Love:

And you also assist the Diocese when they need someone to hear confessions in Spanish in various locations, too. Yeah. and then you're the pastor of Holy Family. Perhaps the boss of Holy Family.

Fr. Mike:

Some would say. I don't think so. I think cheerleader is probably the best word use.

Katie Love:

And then you also have this extra title of Assistant Provincial of the Oblates.

Fr. Mike:

Yes, that is correct.

Katie Love:

So, I mean, a man who wears many hats.

Fr. Mike:

Mm hmm. Yeah. Every week is different. Every day is different. The Oblates are family, right? So, people say, what do you do? I'm like, well, I'm with the family today. So this is the family responsibility, the family obligation. I like doing work for them.

Katie Love:

because I'm sure parishioners here have noticed that you're traveling a lot more. You're doing a lot more. So, can you explain some of this to us?

Fr. Mike:

Sure. So the Oblates are governed, and governed is a loose term, but in a religious community like ours, you have a province. So a province is like a diocese, except it's not geographically based, So our province right now would be Buffalo, New York, Toledo, Adrian, and we have a house in Washington, DC, and technically could go all the way out to California. There were people out in California when I started.

Katie Love:

Yeah, in Florida, right? All the way down?

Fr. Mike:

Yeah, the Wilmington province still has men in Florida, but in we don't anymore. But, but it's run by a Provincial and the Provincial is the equivalent to a Bishop. So my brother is the Provincial, Father Joe, who he did our mission last year,

Katie Love:

Yeah. And he did a podcast

Fr. Mike:

So he is the Provincial and then the Provincial Council assists him. And so that is myself and then Father Alan Zobler and then Father Craig Irwin, who was here as a seminarian.

Katie Love:

Yes.

Fr. Mike:

And so I'm what's called the Assistant Provincial. By our constitutions, the only thing that makes the Assistant Provincial special is if the Provincial is not able to perform his duties, the Assistant Provincial takes over. And, if the Provincial is made the Superior General, or passes away or something, Provincial has to call, the Assistant has to call an election. I mean, I don't want to make it sound less important than it is, but you know, I read the fine prints. Sothat's what it is. But in practice, it's some what's whatever Administrative stuff that my brother wants to give me or different projects for the Oblate's that that we take on. So we've been doing a lot of traveling recently Working on leadership within our own provincial council and with the Wilmington, Philadelphia province talking about the future. So that's had me out of Adrian more than it normally would. I give two retreats a year for different dioceses, different places on the Spirituality of St. Francis de Sales. So I did, I had one of those this fall that I was at. I'm a member of the International Association Scholars Seminar. I think we're really desperate when I get on that.

Katie Love:

That just sounds like nerding out right there. I mean, that is your dream and that is most everybody's like nightmare.

Fr. Mike:

Oh, it was, yeah, it was so much fun. I wrote an academic paper while here working

Katie Love:

At 44. yeah.

Fr. Mike:

On Synodality and Salesian Spirituality to present at this conference and I could revise it. We'll see what it's in God's hands right now but yeah, it was great. I had a great weekend with everybody doing that. And then really it's just other various things that cross my desk. Right now we start 150 years of the Oblates. It's Jubilee year. So I'm working with some Oblates on celebrations in Toledo and Adrian and throughout our province. I'm also editing a couple little booklets that I would like to see us produce during that year. So I'm, reformatting them, retyping them editing them, basically. And all that just takes time. And then I continue traveling with Joe and others as they ask me to.

Katie Love:

Yeah. So that's potentially why we haven't seen you around a or it

Fr. Mike:

a lot of it's been that.

Katie Love:

if people wanna have a meeting, it's kind of like, oh, I'm sorry, but I'm not available for a little while because of all these other obligations.

Fr. Mike:

yeah, it's rare. I mean, people are like, can I meet with you? I'm like, yes, but we're probably looking at next week. And, it's not a negative, I try to get as much into a week as I possibly can.

Katie Love:

Yes. I don't know that I've met anyone else who tries to stuff more in Which is just fascinating that we're in present time spirituality when your calendar just screams, I have 400 things to do today.

Fr. Mike:

Well, and that's I think that's why I like salesian spirituality so much because it's a struggle for me to practice it, right? Like Francis says pay attention to the man walking through your door and I'm saying I want to but i've got to take care of this other thing right now. And yet the Lord has put this guy here And or this Person, here. So, okay. How how am I going to respond to this? So then okay Lord, give me the grace to do it. Let me let go of Whatever preconceived notion I have to fit myself into what you Have and that's so hard for me to do.

Katie Love:

I'm always frightened when you say to me, oh I have this list of things I need to get done because I know then some tornado is going to come and wreck that. I'm just like, oh Lord, please help him handle this well Because inevitably they'll Be a sick call or an anointing at hospice or something and then all these plans are.

Fr. Mike:

But Fr. Tom Helfrich is now here and he has so graciously said, I'm here to help. And I accept that help.

Katie Love:

No, he's been a great addition

Fr. Mike:

He's been a wonderful help here for the parish. I mean, that's been, that's been the biggest gift is that something comes like, Tom, can you handle this? Cause I'm on a zoom call for the next two hours or something. And I can't break away right now.

Katie Love:

That has been a good gift. gift

Fr. Mike:

Yeah. His coming has been wonderful.

Katie Love:

And you've been assistant provincial at the Oblates for a long time, so.

Fr. Mike:

Yeah, I've been in leadership 2011, 2012, I think I started. But So I think, yeah, three provincials, nine, nine years, ten years as assistant

Katie Love:

right after you were ordained,

Fr. Mike:

Yeah, it was two years, yeah, because I spoke up at a meeting and everybody else didn't, that's what I think. Other people might say something else. I was like, no, I just, Expressed myself strongly on the floor, and then after that I found that people voted. when I go to meetings now, I'm like, I'm not going to say a word, not going to say a word. I think it's somebody talks about Isaiah. One of the prophets says, this fire wells up in you and you've got to talk. And I'm just like, tamper down fire, like tamper down.

Katie Love:

Soon we're going to see him turn into the burning bush in the staff meeting. I can't wait. We'll make sure to take photos

Fr. Mike:

Yeah. Make sure to get-. It will be a great Instagram reel.

Katie Love:

Yes, this is a big concern. Is a good Instagram? is how we judge spirituality nowadays in the Catholic Church.

Fr. Mike:

Unfortunate, but true.

Katie Love:

So you said, St. Therese of Lisieux wasn't your favorite saint. So who is your favorite saint?

Fr. Mike:

Oh, that's a good Question. I go through, I go through periods with saints, right? so I think for me, saints hit me when I need them. And then they, not depart, but it's like friendship, you know, you get somebody who walks with you for a period of time and then they kind of walk away. so I would say right now it probably is St. Francis de Sales because of proximity. In my spare time when I'm still trying to, I've spent five years in this goal but I'm trying to read about Francis as bishop, but also as pastor. Because I'm trying to distill what are the earmarks or the signs that he would have done. So when I do these retreats around the country, I'll take a little bit of this, let's look at that, or when I did the paper on synodality, it was, what did a synod look like for Francis? And nothing like it looks now, it's totally different. But it was just an interesting way of what is, what was the pastoral style like? And then what can we glean from that that's still applicable today. So I would say at this point, probably St. Francis de Sales.

Katie Love:

that's, an interesting thing because, I would think, we'd be talking about St. Michael the Archangel as your number one in this world.

Fr. Mike:

Well, I do like Michael. I'm not going to lie. I use this stuff, when I do my rosary every day, I include the prayer at the end, I don't want to say I don't think about it every day, but it's like, be with me, protect me. When I bless cars, I always invoke him for the people in the car, right? And I always enjoy him fighting the dragon. it's one of my favorite things. I wrote a master's thesis on that, so that was, yeah.

Katie Love:

Yeah, you have written some interesting papers.

Fr. Mike:

Who doesn't want to study Old Testament monsters? I can't, oh, I can't believe that.

Katie Love:

Well, wasn't just me missed the audience raising their hands collectively.

Fr. Mike:

Can't believe, Oh, I can't believe that. No, no, no, no, no.

Katie Love:

I mean, we all live the monsters in manger homily at the Epiphany

Fr. Mike:

Oh, that's of my favorite ones.

Katie Love:

I feel like it's a brief synopsis of your masters thesis though.

Fr. Mike:

Well, so here's, here's the bigger, I'll lay it out. Here's the big idea and the small idea. Big idea is this. So the Bible Is the inspired Word of God. Yet there are sea monsters in it. So how do you deal with this? cause a lot of times we'll, in the Catholic faith, in faith general, we will say things but not think about the repercussions of what we say. So if I say this to be true, that's fine. But that carries a whole lot of other stuff with it. It doesn't mean it's not true, but there's a whole lot wound up in that. Here's an example. We may need to edit this out but. So, a lot of times we'll talk about the creation story in the bible, right? Like, there's the creation story. It had to happen like this. Earth is made in seven days, you know, and it's this thing. Okay, that's Genesis one. But Genesis 2 has a totally different story. Now the earth is this flat land and God creates people. And then sometimes we try and like, it's called harmonize, we try to put the two together. We totally forget Psalm 74, which is also a creation story, where God splits the monster in two and then makes the earth grow out of it. So there's a whole nother one. Or Psalm 89 where he does the same thing. So I'm here in college but I'm going to dedicate my life to the faith but like, is this earth? Is this a sea monster carcass? Like, what is this? And nobody's talking about it, but everybody's on Twitter. Well, the Bible is, it's 5,000 years old cause this, okay. But like, I'm sorry. if it's, if it is like, like, what does this mean? How does this work? And I had a professor up in Toronto, John McLaughlin, who was really into this stuff. I said, I want to learn about that. He goes, Well, you got to learn hebrew. I said, okay. Well, like I already studied like, okay. No biggie. So I enrolled in Hebrew

Katie Love:

I just saw you say, no biggie. I just enrolled in Hebrew.

Fr. Mike:

Well, I could and well and I thought it's I've never done a language like this, it's really cool.

Katie Love:

Next week I'll be doing Aramaic.

Fr. Mike:

I did learn some of that. so I did the same thing with Spanish I bought flashcards I had a very good T. A. who helped me out, was very encouraging for me. And I just did the same thing with Spanish. I approached it like a, like a spoken language. And I loved it. I got really good at it. It was just phenomenal. And reading the Bible, reading the Old Testament in the original Hebrew, unlocked so many things that the English translation, we just don't get It's just not there. And that's nobody's fault. It's just you're reading a translation. So nuance and stuff. It's just not there. and at the same time, I'm reading all this stuff. So then I'm like, okay, what do I do with this? I'm reading it in the original language. It's showing all these changes that we just don't get. Which made me see this text has got to be inspired by God because I look at some of these things even how word flow happens in different books and stuff and it just exploded my brain And looking at the Hebrew going. This is just amazing And then when it came to the monsters, I found a lot of that actually was also Canaanites. So Canaanites There are different languages. One's Ugaritic, so you gotta learn a hieroglyphic language. I wasn't able to take a class on that. But I was able to do a little bit with it. And so I can remember this TA unrolling these scrolls for me up in the top of the university library. So we're going through looking at this text, 6, 000 years old, right? and you're looking at it and it's basically identical to like part of the book of Isaiah. So it's just a lifting from the Canaanite. They just took a story, Which is like what I do every week for a homily, right? I take a story from something and I use it somewhere else. And that was just fascinating to me how now the biblical authors are taking stories everybody knew to say something about God. we all know the story. I'm going to put it into the Bible and it's telling us something about the Lord, which with the sea monster is that the Lord is the master of the sea, That's one example of many, right? I'm really oversimplifying, but, and that God is more powerful than the sea. And that just, that was just fascinating to me or another way to put it, there's chaos in the world. And in some stories, God tampers down the chaos and defeats it, this is like Isaiah, and then there's other points where there's chaos in the world and the Lord delights in it. And says it's the most beautiful thing he's ever made. Which is the end of the book of joe with Leviathan. And that just, as someone who likes control and lists, and you know, I thought, well look at what you've done, Lord. You've made me study chaos. And you show me that sometimes God contains it, and sometimes God lets it go. All this is found within the scriptural text. All this is within the bible. So it's not always a question of, is it what we would understand today as factually true, Cause there are different genres in the Bible as much as this story has something to teach me. Am I able to open up, my mind, my heart, my hands, my whole body to receive it. And then am I able to act on it? And that, was just transformative to me. I mean, I remember I was, finishing up in Toronto writing this master's thesis on Leviathan, and I was all geeked out because I was like I want to go to Jerusalem now, it's 2009, and I want to study modern Hebrew because there are some similarities, and I want to learn more Aramaic, you know, I want to look at these languages, and then I want to basically get a PhD in Bible, but language, right? I want to do linguistic work because there's so much we can, there's so many issues that we think are issues. That I think if we were to say, here's what the language says, here's what the dates are, it would solve a lot of issues. So I'm all geeked out about this. Yeah, I can see your face, yep.

Katie Love:

I would fall asleep. But unfortunately the camera tell everyone that. So, uh, you know, bearing with you.

Fr. Mike:

And I went to the current provincial this is what I want to do. And he said no.

Katie Love:

Well, he probably said, What?

Fr. Mike:

Well, no, we, we actually had a scripture scholar in the Oblates ahead of me, Father Tony Ceresko, whose chalice I have. The chalice you see in the church that's got the wood on then the mosaic and all that, that was his. And he was a scripture linguistic scholar. He had just died a couple years later. In fact, the guy teaching me in Toronto had been his student. So I said, I'd like to do this. And they said, no, is not the time for that. You're going to be ordained. You need to go off and do teach high school Yeah, do that. So again, I made a lifetime vow of obedience. And so I said, understood. Okay. So I finished up my work.

Katie Love:

You said this, nobody else would say that. But yeah. You're like, yes.

Fr. Mike:

John, the John, the 23rd had this great line that I've never forgotten him where I read it, but he had this line where he said, it might've been his papal motto, but he said, obedience is peace. And I've always thought about that, like if I'm going to vow my life to someone, And this is what is request or asked for. And I do the best I can to achieve that. Then there's nothing more I can do. And that's always given me a whole lot of peace. Like today, I had to get a homily ready for Mass today, and I'm like, all week at home I cannot think about how homily. I'm driving back here this afternoon, listening to Randy's podcast and I'm like, that's it. So like, I pull the car over, I pull out the notes app. I put on the voice recorder. I speak the homily into the voice recorder or the main ideas, and then I, then I drive back and it's like, okay. Obedience is peace. So I went and taught high school and I loved it. And then two years later, he called me into his office and he goes, okay, it's time to do that PhD and I was just like, I'm not going to lie to you. None of these ninth graders care about that. I tried teaching Hebrew ninth graders. They did not care.

Katie Love:

I find that hard to believe. Working with high school students myself, I think Hebrews

Fr. Mike:

We had a song, it doesn't matter, but but the interesting thing was that the questions were different. And in my mind I thought, you know, I know enough about this to satisfy my own curiosity. I know what I needed to find. I don't need to do this anymore for me. What I needed to know, I know. And I still read a lot about it now, to be honest. I have a whole side thing where I'm reading. My Hebrew is nothing like it used to be, which is sad,

Katie Love:

I can't believe that won't get you far in Adrian. I mean, I hope your Latin is much better.

Fr. Mike:

I've been studying a little bit of Latin because I never took it.

Katie Love:

How many languages would you say you have more than dipped your your toe in?

Fr. Mike:

Spanish and English. Sign language, we have an Oblate who's deaf, and I can sign. I don't sign well. In fact, the parts of the brain that do written spoken language and sign language language are different parts of the brain. I've done Mass in sign. I've made tons of mistakes. The blessing is I'm not afraid to do it. And the people are just always very welcoming. In fact, Father Mike Depcik I think he just watches my mouth. Cause he's very good lip reader. Like we'll do something like, you're not even watching my hands. Right. Like you're not even watching my hands right now. Right. And he's like, no, I'm like, can I just stop? He's like, Oh no, no. If I can't read your lips, I'm going to need to watch the signs.[ Laughter] So, I'll, I'll do that. I do French, but not well, but my French is always getting every time I go back to France, it gets better. Now I can listen and pick out words and general ideas. Portuguese, but again, just from the Spanish. I can't read it. But if we're speaking Portuguese and Spanish are pretty similar.

Katie Love:

They're close.

Fr. Mike:

They're close. Latin, I can kind of read with a dictionary. Like Hebrew, you know, biblical, I was decent at, a little bit of Aramaic 'cause they're very similar. And that's all I really could say. It would just be that.

Katie Love:

And that's been what? Over the last 20 years you've studied all those languages?

Fr. Mike:

Yeah. I mean, you figure I started Spanish in'95 in high and have school, and I've never stopped Spanish.

Katie Love:

Yeah, but outside of that. You know, sign language...

Fr. Mike:

Sign would have been 2000 some.

Katie Love:

Some biblical language.

Fr. Mike:

Yeah. That was a couple years, yeah.

Katie Love:

I think you need to find a hobby.

Fr. Mike:

I think that was the hobby. I'm afraid to go on Duolingo because I may never leave it if I've been doing it.

Katie Love:

That's true. We definitely need to. But, perhaps finding a game or something might be

Fr. Mike:

Might be a good idea.

Katie Love:

Well, well you you do Farmville and Candy Crush.

Fr. Mike:

I do Farmville, Best fiends not Candy Crush. I just started Farmville, it's very addicting. and Best Fiends I'm still working on, but.

Katie Love:

That's probably as close to working on to working on a farm as you're gonna gonna get.

Fr. Mike:

That's exactly right.

Katie Love:

You could work at Maria's farm taking care of the chickens and the,

Fr. Mike:

Uh, I could, I could. But it's just like camping. I was in Cub Scouts until all of a sudden, Boy Scouts, they're like, you gotta pitch a tent and sleep outside. I'm like, you gotta do what? I was like, oh no, idea of camping is like going to the Holiday Inn, right? Like, that's, that's enough. This whole outdoor thing for fun, that's crazy.

Katie Love:

So I just imagine.

Fr. Mike:

I didn't last long I I think it was like two days in Boy Scouts and I'm like, I'm done. That's happening. Let's move on.

Katie Love:

What would you say maybe the next 10 years hold for you? Anything different? Like, is the potential to go study still on the table? Or is there something that's unfulfilled in what you're hoping to achieve? I could see Pope Michael. I'm not wishing death on Francis in the next ten years but we, we need a little help getting you to Cardinal status. That's for certain.

Fr. Mike:

Yeah, I don't speak Italian so I think I'm okay not worrying about the whole papal thing, don't think it's gonna happen. And I think some of the stuff I've done here, they're like, we do not want him.

Katie Love:

I don't understand. A man who speaks like almost eight languages decently and writes papers for fun in his spare time. Why wouldn't they want you?

Fr. Mike:

Oh, okay. I don't speak eight language. That's a little exaggeration there. I would say English and Spanish, a little bit of sign language. The others are good. No, all kidding aside, I think what I'm most interested in now here in Adrian is, you know, our, our own ability as a parish at this time in the Catholic church, like what, what do we do now? Like in the United States I hesitate to ever use words like decline or rise, I just don't think they're helpful words. But instead it's like, here we have a group of people trying to follow Jesus In a culture that is ambivalent towards it, you know, at best and hostile towards it at worst. So what does that look like for us? And then as we do that, I'm so conditioned to think the things that we have now we're always going going have. Whereas in reality that may not be the case, right? We don't know what's going to be happening in the future. I also find that incredibly exciting, right? When it's like, we don't know what's coming forward, but it's going to be something. And we're still going to be able to find God and Christ in that. If I'm able in present moment to pay attention to it And and, realize it. So that's, that's what I think for here. For me personally, I honestly don't know. I don't have any desire at this point to go anywhere than where I I am right now.

Katie Love:

No, I don't mean leave parish, but, you did the Salesian Symposium this year, which you had previously not done, but had some desire to do.

Fr. Mike:

Scholarship for us, I think, is important. Us being the Oblates. I like doing that work to be able to read that stuff and think about that stuff. And my French is still, it's okay. It's not good enough, where I would want to say I could translate a whole document and pick out the nuances. That's not there. I wouldn't mind someday going and really, I think it would take a year or so, just to really immerse myself in French. To learn the original language of the founders and whatnot. And then to kind of do the same thing I was saying about the Bible, right? You read these documents, you're able to pick up ideas, what's really important, what stands out here, and then to do that kind of cultural work and spiritual work. Francis de Sales has certain words, that means certain things in his spirituality that don't in others. You know, how do we best reappropriate that for today? That's of a huge interest to me. Father Brisson had the same for the Oblates. How do we reappropriate the idea of the presence of God? which is talked about in monasteries and stuff where they're sweeping a floor to today where there's a robot that's going to sweep the floor for you. Like how does that work today? Where's God found today? So that's a huge interest of mine.

Katie Love:

I feel like studying in France could happen given your current provincial. There could be like a little pull, if you will.

Fr. Mike:

Everything is possible. I think if I were to request, he would probably say okay. Going back to when I was in college. I know it's there when I have this burning desire in

Katie Love:

my heart to do

Fr. Mike:

it. And that desire is not yet present. So when that's not there, I don't move. And people go, well, it's intellectual? I'm like, it's really not. It's a feeling.

Katie Love:

Yeah. For as intellectual as you are, you're a really big feeler.

Fr. Mike:

I'm a big feeler. Yeah. it shocks people like, Oh no, like I just do that by my gut. really? I'm like, Oh yeah, I just feel it. Well, it's like with people like at church, Deacon Len will say this, he's like, I don't know why you're going to have that homily there. Cause you're just going to walk around and not use it. And some days he's right. Cause I've written something and I'm looking at the people when I come early church, talk to people and I'm like, this is not where we are today. So I'm going to talk about something totally different.

Katie Love:

Yeah, last Sunday you just did that for the RCIA right of welcoming. You're like, You know what? I'm scraping this and we're gonna go here.

Fr. Mike:

Oh yeah. And then Maria made it beautiful because of the reel she did, I was like, Oh, I sounded really good there.

Katie Love:

I know she makes all of us really good. I'm so grateful to her

Fr. Mike:

No, but that was it. Like we had the right of welcoming and I had this wonderful homily on, you know, we have this thing about RCIA here, which I like, which is you encounter Jesus. You know you love Jesus, You live Jesus, right? That's the four stages. And I had this whole thing out with stories and stuff and I'm just looking at them, and I can still see them because I'm looking at them. They're right

Katie Love:

here.

Fr. Mike:

And the thing about it is I don't know them all really well, but I know their stories. I know their sponsors, most of them and what's going on. And I'm like, This is not going to help us right now. Or that's not the right word to say. This is not the word.

Katie Love:

This is not the right time.

Fr. Mike:

Yeah, this is not the word that needs to be proclaimed to these people right now. Let's just do something different. And then you just say, okay, Holy Spirit, make something work. And then you take an idea or two and like, okay, here we go. And then poor

Katie Love:

Kurt,

Fr. Mike:

because he turns the cameras around. I try to stay in the ambo now, especially four o'clock mass, cause we're sending it to the nursing homes. And it's just a better picture for all of them. If I just confine myself and I know it's better on the internet, I think for people when I do that, cause I'm trying to think of the sick, the homebound those who are at home, they send us messages, like thank you for broadcasting Mass or sending this out, but

Katie Love:

Yeah, the extended parish.

Fr. Mike:

Right, yeah. The extended Parish. I'm always mindful of them, but some days you're like, I just got to do this, but it's a gut, it's a gut feeling.

Katie Love:

Yeah, I mean, now, it's not just homebound, but we have people watching in foreign countries, we've got people watching in Northern Michigan. We got

Fr. Mike:

philippines love us!

Katie Love:

The Philippines. I think we could get a strong following in Venezuela out of having Fiorella

Fr. Mike:

It's possible, it's possible.

Katie Love:

Yeah, so, I think, that is important, but I do appreciate that, the fact that you are very intellectual, but you're also a big feeler, I mean, the balance is striking.

Fr. Mike:

Oh yeah, nobody cried harder at prom when I had to chaperone it than me. be sitting there. You probably can't put this in the podcast, but but, was this one prom, I probably should tell the story, but I will,

Katie Love:

[Laughter]

Fr. Mike:

and so when I used to go to chaperone high school dances, I would go with the holy water bucket, right? At St. Francis, we had this balcony overlooking the dance. And I would always teach the kids the Cotton Eye Joe before homecoming, because we had to have at least one dance that you could do by yourself that looked dignified, and you weren't like, smothering your partner. So then we would get, and I love drama. So we get the whole group doing it, which was always very enjoyable for me. Probably more about me than the kids, but that's why I left high school ministry.

Katie Love:

Yes.

Fr. Mike:

But then I would go on the balcony with the holy water and I would just, during some of those slow dance songs, you know, 10 years ago that were just... there was nothing

Katie Love:

a little K-Ci & Jojo and yeah.

Fr. Mike:

That's it. I would rain down holy water above and they would all stop and they would all separate and they would all look up then I would just be looking down at them going like little blessing and then they would wave and they would wave and then we go right back into it.

Katie Love:

I would just like to ask, is there anything else you want to share with with your captive audience?

Fr. Mike:

I think the biggest blessing, people often look at the parish and say like the parish is going so well because of what you've done. And what I generally like to say back to them

is:

we are all here in a group together right? And, and that's, why this is going as it's going. I even hate to put well or not well qualifiers on it because that's all subjective. Like what's your, how do you measure success, right? Jesus is not about success measuring like by Instagram followers or anything like that.

Katie Love:

Although you did blow up with your your playboy homily.

Fr. Mike:

He did. I want to thank Monsignor. He's over at st. Joe's campus. I see him every time I come

Katie Love:

Clem kern.

Fr. Mike:

That's right. Monsignor Kern. But you know the Lord Jesus was really into just individual conversion, one person at a time And then moving forward with that. And so, you know, a lot of times I'll be like, Oh, I wish, you know, Envy. It's a key thing. I always struggle with Envy. Why don't we like this? Why don't we have that one? You know. And then you can miss all the grace that actually is happening because I'm so focused on something else. Instead of saying, look at the wonderful things God has done here and look what I'm able to participate in. Or the line I like to use most for my life comes from Henri Nouwen, but Nouwen goes, my deepest vocation is to be a witness to the glimpses of God that I've been privileged enough to catch. And like when I'm saying Mass here and going up the aisle and I'm looking at people and people hate when I look at them, not everyone, but some people are like they looked and I looked down. Some people are just like, Oh, Hey, you know, and then we got the kids who love it. And so I'm like waving at them. But when I go into church, and I see people I remember, well, Your mom just died. You know, you're sick with this. You just won the softball tournament You just had a baby. This is the one year anniversary of RCIA, you know what I mean? It's this whole communal thing. And then to participate in that, to be in that. God, what a gift, what an absolute gift.

Katie Love:

I also think, bringing in the Salesian Spirituality of unidiversity has been one of the greatest blessings that we've had, because I don't think people had to give up who they were or a lot of their spirituality to be able to have Holy Family come together.

Fr. Mike:

Right. Yeah. We don't need to get rid of. It's not, it's not either-or it's both-and we can do this together. Greg Boyle is a Jesuit priest gangs. I love his books. It's very challenging. He just released a book called Cherished belonging. And it's all about we belong together and we work together and I can't read things like that and not think of the power of Eucharist, which is seen sacramentally in the body and blood of Christ on the altar, and then incarnated physically in each and every one of us in all that we do. Everything, in a sense, is, eucharistic, everything partakes in this. Not everything, but within the context of the church. All this partakes of Christ's body and Christ's blood and the giving, and the dying and the rising and the It's just so, it's so powerful. It's so powerful.

Katie Love:

One of my favorite things lately that I've been meditating on is an Instagram post by someone who said, I don't want to miss Jesus in all the different aspects of life the burning bush the you know, because we think of it being very clean and clear cut . But it's really in the messiness and chaos that the incarnation happens on Christmas. That's what we're looking at and it's not in the quiet, still manger, the meme of like, Oh, Mary just got Jesus to sleep and a drummer boy thought the best idea he could do was bang his drum. It's all of that. Right. And that's where God comes is in the messiness.

Fr. Mike:

And flourishes, I think in the messiness. Flourishes in it.

Katie Love:

I think if we ever get still, I think we should be careful because some real issues.

Fr. Mike:

I'm like, okay,Lord. understood. Understood. Message received.. Help me.

Katie Love:

Well, thank you so much for joining us today. I know you're a very busy man. So to give us this time and wisdom with everybody who is listening, who we're so grateful for it is just a blessing.

Fr. Mike:

Thank you. No.It's, an honor and a pleasure to be here with you and Maria, and also just to continue to be here at Holy Family. It's a gift that God just Just keeps on giving. And I'm grateful for that.

Katie Love:

We are grateful for you. Once again, we thank you for joining us today. We hope that wherever you find an open seat in your life, you will invite someone to join you.

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Katie Love

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