Open Seat: A Holy Family Podcast
Welcome to Open Seat, the podcast where we create a space for authentic conversations about faith—unfiltered and unapologetic. With each episode, we invite guests from all walks of life to share their personal journeys, struggles, and revelations moments of doubt, discovery, and everything in between. Here, we believe that every story matters, and in the open seat, there’s room for honesty, vulnerability, and community. Whether you’re questioning, seeking, or steadfast in your beliefs, you’ll find something relatable in these heartfelt discussions. So grab your seat, get comfortable, and let’s dive in to today’s story here - at the Open Seat.
Open Seat: A Holy Family Podcast
A Life of Faith, Sacrifice & Service
In this episode, Kathy Wickham shares her life story, reflecting on her Catholic upbringing, the sacrifices made for her education, and her journey from nursing aspirations to a fulfilling 53-year marriage. Kathy recounts how her spiritual journey evolved over the years, with moments of doubt and growth, emphasizing the importance of faith, spiritual direction, and community service. She offers insights into her role as a catechist and nurse, her discernment process with the Daughters of St. Francis de Sales, and the enduring support of her family. Kathy's story is one of resilience, faith, and dedication, offering valuable lessons on living a life of purpose and grace.
00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Kathy Wickham
00:17 Early Life and Catholic Upbringing
01:09 Transition to Catholic School
03:49 High School Years and Family Sacrifices
06:00 Post-High School Decisions and Marriage
09:36 Life as a Medical Transcriptionist and Nursing Career
14:03 Spiritual Journey and Nursing as a Vocation
20:36 Role as a Catechist and Spiritual Direction
27:44 Aspirantship and Salesian Spirituality
31:06 Living the Faith and Final Reflections
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This is a podcast of Holy Family Parish, located in Adrian MI. We are a Catholic people, not a place, striving to Live Jesus through celebrating the sacraments and forming disciples in Adrian and beyond.
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Open Seat es un podcast Parroquia de la Sagrada Familia ubicada en Adrian, Michigan. Somos un pueblo católico, no un lugar, que se esfuerza por vivir a Jesús celebrando los sacramentos y formando discípulos en Adrian y más allá.
so today on the show we have Kathy Wickham joining us. Good morning. Good morning, Katie. And how are you today? Good. Thank you for inviting me. Well, for sitting in the open seat. My pleasure. is just going to be a whole new adventure for all of us, so I hope you're ready to buckle up. So, Kathy, let's start with, like, early years of life. What did they look like? Growing up in a Catholic household, mom, dad The oldest of five three brothers, and my little sister, the, who was the youngest. I had the privilege of going to Catholic school. So, I think that was an important part of my beginning. Mom and Dad always had us at Mass. We had a really supportive family with Grandma and Grandpa and Aunt and Uncle who were very faithful to the Catholic Church and six cousins that joined us. So it was very family oriented, but very Christ oriented as well. So, I owe a lot of a good foundation to all of that in my growing up years. growing So when you say grew Catholic, what did that look like? When I made my first communion, I was in a public school. I didn't start at St. Mary's grade school until I was in the third grade. But seeing the some of the kids that were in my class, and I, it's not clear to me now when I recollect all of this, it seemed like I was in a class for sacramental prep with some of the students who were St. Mary's students.. And I remember thinking, you know, I, I want to go there. I don't know what there was specifically about these kids, but I, know that it was something that I wanted, and I remember asking my parents if I could go to St.. Mary's what I didn't realize is what the sacrifice would be for them to make financially for me to go there. But they made that happen. And and I always loved it. I just loved being in that. I loved being in that environment, and I felt very cared about.. And not that, that you can't in a public school, but it was a different way and I think, you know, especially with religion class, the discipline that was required and, and expected the expectations of us and there was just always something new and exciting. And I just remember always looking around At other grades, you know, as we're passing in the hallways and, and things like that. Everything being very orderly. It was, it was just such a good feeling to be there. I always enjoyed feeling that. You alluded the sacrafice that made. Can you elaborate a little more on the sacrafice for you to be able to go t o school? Was certainly a sacrifice for, for my family. I think from financially from a tuition standpoint books to buy, uniforms to buy and, and all of that. But I think my parents felt pretty good about that decision as well. I remember them asking me over and over, are you sure? And I'm thinking, well, yeah, what's the big deal? Yeah, I'm sure. I'm not sure about the sacrifices in other ways, and I'm sure there were some, but I was not aware of that. I do remember Two of, actually three of my brothers coming on board also mom and dad sending them. I'm not sure how well it worked out for them, but I think, I think in retrospect they were glad to have that opportunity as well. Oh, good. good. Good. So, went to Catholic school from third grade to through high school? After eighth grade we went to Catholic Central and St. Joseph Elementary School joined us there. And unfortunately, at the end of, by the end of my sophomore year for lack of funding and, and so forth, Catholic Central had to close. So we spent half of the day in my sophomore year being bused to Adrian High School. Oh, so you had like split Catholic school and public education? Yes. you poor heathen. Well, well, it really wasn't so great. I, we had to wear our uniforms. So we really stood out in the crowd. And You know, I just remember some comments being not so nice. I mean, you didn't want to be conspicuous, right? But there you are. And but the next year, my junior year when we were full time at Adrian High School, in Plainclothes. It was though, it never, nothing bad had ever happened in that regard my 10th grade year when, when we were going out half days. So, yeah but I loved those years. And one of the things that I really loved, and I think about it now in retrospect, having merged two parishes to become Holy Family. I never felt any kind of division in ninth grade with the kids coming from St. Joe's and those of us from St. Mary's. It was like just the opportunity for new friends and and good relationships. So, I think maybe at that point in life, maybe we're a little more open to new opportunities and a little more open minded and, and hearts open. So I loved that and I really grieved the loss of, of being able to be at Catholic Central with all of my friends when all of that changed my 11th grade year. And that's when you started public school, That's when I started. well, 10th grade. So then after high school, what, what did you decide to do? Well, this was a bit of a point of contention between me and my parents. I had intended to go to nursing school in Ann Arbor. My senior year I had taken the entrance exam at St. Joseph Mercy Hospital. And I was going to go to LPN school, licensed nursing school. Practical nurse and, and hope for a, a high spot in the class to win a scholarship to go on for my RN. I knew that I had to pay for my education, and so I had saved during my high school years, and I had the money to be able to take this program. I got my acceptance letter, and a couple weeks later, John and I had been dating for almost two years at that point. That was a really good thing about going to Adrian High School. I met my husband. Great man. But I had intended to go to nursing school and he had been drafted during the Vietnam War and he was at Fort Hood in Texas. And He proposed to me. And this is when your parents regretted sending you to public school. Let's just clarify all thoughts right now. I, yeah, I would agree with that. So, anyway, I had this really tough decision to make. I thought, oh, so, do I, I give up what my dream has been? But, I always felt in my relationship with, with John I always felt that God was in there. And I always felt that this may be a person that I could spend the rest of my life with. But being so young, how, you know, how do you know? So there was this period of discernment that Did not go well with my parents. They were very disappointed. If you don't get your education now, they wanted that badly for me, and I understand that. Maybe not as well then as I, I do now as a parent myself. But I chose to marry. And for the first time, move way away from home about 1, 500 miles at 18 years old. Gave up my spot in the nursing program and started a new adventure. adventure. And that all worked pretty well. I mean, obviously a, a crooked road and wonderful times along the way, and not so wonderful times along the way. Oh, I'm sure over 50 years that seemed just like yesterday. You know, in some ways, in some ways, I, I think about that, and John and I will talk about that every once in a while. Remember when, and remember some of the decisions that we made, and so forth, and, and how glad we are today that we made the decisions that we did. So, after John went to Fort Hood, right? And you were with him in Fort Hood, did you pursue your education there? Well, because we never knew if he was going to be deployed somewhere or we were going to be moved no. I had checked into Central Texas University for the nursing program, but it just didn't seem a practical thing. And it was going to be a lot of money. which we didn't have. Think between my allotment and his pay, we had a total of$250 a month for everything. So we were pretty frugal about our spending. But I did find a program in a nearby town that prepared you to be a medical transcriptionist. So it was learning medical terminology and, and I had good typing skills from classes in high school. So, we had some savings bonds that we had been given as we grew up. We cashed them in and we paid for this program. And that was it was really a good preparation for later going to nursing school because I had the medical terminology under my belt, but it did allow me then to get a good job as a medical transcriptionist within medical records department to help support our family and And still meet a goal as a stepping stone. Now, one of the things that I learned after we got married, was, John said, you know, I never really wanted to be married to a nurse because they work terrible hours. And I'm thinking, hmm, okay all right, we'll have to work with this a little bit. But you know, my husband of 53 years saw to it, in lieu of his own education, passed high school. That I got mine. That I went to nursing school. We did the stepping stone thing. Because of finances. So my family made the sacrifice. That we didn't have a lot of extra things. We did manage in there to buy our own home at high interest rates times, but we learned what responsibility and obligation and what was really important meant. And those were some of the best times in our life. We've often gone back to that, that they were simple and very valuable. So, John made sure that I had my education and went on for my RN and then went on for some specialty education at Cleveland Clinic. So, which I'm happy to say and grateful to say that I can practice that specialty even today to help others in a way that I've not been able to practice nursing before now and until my retirement. So, my debt of gratitude to my husband, to Sarah, to Christopher and such a supportive family. They made all this happen by grace of God So, Sarah is the oldest and Sarah is 47. Oh, I'm sure she's going to love her age being out there job. Actually, she's she's doesn't hesitate to say. So if you want cut that that out. that's okay. But so Sarah and our son in law Wayne have our only grandchild, Brady. And I'm happy to say Brady had just graduated from Lourdes University with his Master's in Business Administration and now has his first job. So, he's, he's doing pretty well, and I think Sarah and Wayne are certainly proud of him, and we are very proud of him And Wayne just got a new big job at Adrian College, correct? Right. So he is assistant coach for girls ladies basketball at Adrian College. So, yeah. Yeah with Sam who actually, you know, the world is such a small place. Sam was a classmate and I think roommate of our nephew when he was a student at Adrian College. So, there are connections. Yeah. So lots of celebrating going on Yes, absolutely, yeah. And Christopher, Christopher is 43. Again, again, I'm sure he his age, being out there. he lives in St. Louis, Missouri. And Christopher is having quite an adventure being on his own, learning more and discovering himself. And He has a very good job, and he enjoys all of that, and he's had wonderful opportunity in it, so he's able to travel a lot with the company, and yeah, he's, but we do, we do get him home every now and again we always do the family thing in the summertime, that we're all together for at least a week up north together. So, when you were in Catholic school, your foundation for Your spirituality was built. Has that continued all throughout your life? Has it been strengthened or have you where you've weaned? My spiritual journey has been a really crooked one. Some people may not think so, but the reality is yes, it started out really well, but there was a dark time in there. And a lot of uncertainty. And I, I was really away from the church for a while. And I have to say that today I'm grateful for that, that dark time because of what I was able to learn during all of that. But it seemed like it just took me such a long, long time, but I'm glad to be where I am now. And that doesn't mean that there's still aren't those times where I seem a little distant to God. I know that He's not distant to me, but that I tend to move away a little bit. Getting back to Mass , our children and them receiving the sacraments, getting involved in catechism with them in their early years and I think at this point though as an adult, to really start growing. And during, I think one of the things that my years in nursing helped me find. I remember one day going, driving to work and I'm thinking of all of these, these people, all of these patients that I'm going to be seeing and, you know, the troubles that they have and how do you help, you know, how can I best help them in all of this? And it, it dawned on me that I have this opportunity every day in my workplace to do corporal works of mercy. And sometimes spiritual works of mercy. I worked in a Catholic hospital and it's a place I always wanted to work, I think, because I always felt that there was something special about Catholic Christian living and I always saw that, and we, I spent a lot of time in at St. Joe's Hospital. In the old hospital, my mom was very sick and chronically so. So we were in and out of there a lot, but I always admired the nurses taking care of her and how they responded with family as well, especially frightened kids that didn't know what was going on. I didn't understand what was going on. So I had an opportunity to do that, to be that person that could help not only the suffering patient in the bed, but the family and their support systems around them. And sometimes they didn't have much for a support system if they had any at all. So you became something, you know, within boundaries, you became that person for them during a dark time. And that was, that's always been a significant privilege to me. So nursing wasn't just passing out medicines or bandaging up something. It was about a whole person. And then, how do you not look at that and not see a suffering Christ in all of that? There has been a richness in all of this that I just wouldn't trade for the world. And so I think that was been part of my spiritual journey at the back to your question there. But to grow that even more. So I've had opportunities like Cursillo which helps to It helps you to ask the tough questions that maybe you've been avoiding. And it helps you to, it helped me to understand more about where I'm coming from, what my role is, what am I really living the way I say I believe? So it's challenged my Catholic Christianity and in in many good ways. And I am grateful for that. Other opportunities that I've had probably one of the most significant has been spiritual direction with Father Mike and it's just because that really forced me to ask some serious questions. And to really come to terms with where I am. What am I for? And and where do I go? What do I do with this and where do I go from here? So, that's extremely valuable. Spiritual direction just started last couple I think it's almost three now. Yes. Yeah. So that's, that's been a later thing. But a very important one. And even though we're not really meeting that often, what transpires in a session that motivates me and gives me the desire to keep looking deeper, keep going. I mean, my library has become rather expansive. Just ask my husband. He'll be building a new bookshelf just for Kathy's self-help books actually we just found one. So, but self help, not in the way that the world teaches. There's such a huge difference there. Because in my lifetime there was this part of self help that focused on me. It's all about me, what I want and all of that. Spiritual direction goes in a whole different direction. Yeah, I know that I'm important and all of that. However what can I do that in helping someone else, in being a good servant, in being a servant leader that makes me a better person, the best version of myself. We're teaching this in as a catechist and we teach this to our kids, but, I have to look at myself with all of this that am, how, what kind of Role model Am I being in all of this? So the not so much the search, but the desire to make sure that my interactions are genuine and authentic. That because kids see through this stuff a hundred percent. So don't ever, don't even go there,. Don't try it. Spiritual direction has been a significant part of where I am. The opportunity to be a catechist, that's quite a responsibility. I think when I was a catechist years ago I did not see it through the same lenses that I see it today. And I mean, there were certain things that you had to fulfill and qualify for this and do the, you know, take these classes and all of that. But today I can fall back on some of that. However, it's really that spiritual component of that. The the desire to and the need to present information to kids at their level in the world today. What they live every single day, not just something out of a book. How does that relate to them? I think about Father Mike's homilies and it's the many other wonderful homilies that we've heard from other priests and Deacon Len. And I think, that's, it's kind of on that plane with kids that I have to understand where they are and learn from them how they see all of this. So, in order to have that good communication, understanding, and a relationship with them, they need to trust me. And I have to say, from watching you week in, week out with 4th and 5th graders, But also with the children preparing for first sacraments, first reconciliation, first communion, you have such a genuine love and respect for them, which is very difficult to find in a human being. But, Katie, that's that's what we teach our kids, and I mean the respect is one of the number one things for themselves and for others. We do but, what you do so well is they don't have to respect you first to get your respect and in this world today, we still expect kids to respect us in order to respect them. And you do such a fabulous job of meeting them right where they are and not expecting them to be somewhere that you want them to be. That is something that you have always said, Katie, and it's something that I have always remembered. And that is, and it's, it's the same, it's been the same through my nursing career and my relationships with family and you know, at home and extended family. We have to meet people where they are otherwise, It just doesn't work. It just doesn't work. It's a kind of a futile attempt, and we have to go back and re evaluate and understand that there is a better pathway to to get there, and it does start with respecting others. Yeah, I just commend you because I've watched you in many different classrooms, so to speak, in this world. And I stand in awe I watch you, just to respect. I mean, one of the stories that I will always remember for the rest of my life is I was blessed with the opportunity of going to the hospital with you and I watched you walk up to this woman who we had no idea who she was and give her a Kleenex to wipe her nose. And I can't tell you how many people walked by the woman. Both hospital staff and visitors and you just walked up to her and you, you had a conversation with her while you were doing it. And so it wasn't degrading. It wasn't just a handout, but it was in fact a friendship that was formed in that maybe five minutes. And it forever made an impact on, on who I am because you know, we are called to love our neighbors and our neighbor might only be in our presence for five seconds. But That's, that's something I think that. I know I struggle, many people do and you are an excellent example. It's the power of grace, Katie. It's really nothing special on my part, but it's a way that Christ light can shine through me We are just the instruments. And you know, I guess I want to be the best one that I can be. And I struggle. I do have my struggles. I am not perfect and We'll call John later get his other half of this podcast. No, I mean, that is something that when you see somebody who just lives what the gospel is, right? And, and that's what we're called to be, open vessels. But you do extend grace so freely. That it really is a visible sign in the world of what we talk about so often. Well, Katie, a lot of grace has been extended to me through major health problems along the way. Our, our struggles at home and our struggles with health. And some things are a way to give back. I think we can't discount, God doesn't owe me anything. But, my gratitude for even the hard times and maybe especially the hard times. There's a lot of joy that comes out of that. And you want that for everybody. You want people to be okay with themselves and to know God. I think it is beautiful when you can extend the grace you've been given. Right? I think that doesn't happen so often. So I think that that's a huge bit of truth that we can all sit with for a little while. What gifts have I been given and am I extending them freely? And the difficult thing is, is perhaps actually sitting with self and evaluating it, which you've been blessed to do through spiritual direction. I think you also probably give yourself a lot of time to sit with things and we live in a world where we're trying to plan the next thing. But I think that's part of the beauty of retirement. You You know, quite honestly. Wasn't going to talk about your age. I know, but it's true. You know, to have the latitude to have that time. I never feel good, and fortunately this doesn't happen that often, but a morning without coffee and Jesus before everything else, before the day happens is just a vital part. And I can have that time now. I used to take maybe five minutes before, before I rushed out the door going to work. In fact, I remember Some years back, my sister in law had given me a book for Christmas and it was called Jesus Calling. And so, a quick prayer in the morning before I left, but I would read the reflection for the day or the Jesus Calling message for the day. And you know, there were things that would resonate from that message throughout the day and some of it was like these little treasures along the way. It's sort of like, hmm. You know, gosh, thank you. You Close moments, right? Close moments. Absolutely. A great grace, you know, receiving grace and the ability to respond to it. I guess that's another thing that is there's such beauty in all of that. But something else that My path has led me to, and that is I'm finishing a period of discernment about an aspirantship to become a daughter of St. Francis de Sales and Father Mike as an oblate and I love the Salesian spirituality. It's just, it fits my life so well, or maybe my life fits it. So I don't know. It's all working. The aspirantship discernment period is, do I go on into formation for this and so I'm nearing the end of of discernment and it's really an awesome thing for me to think about and to contemplate entering into. Clarify, so you've been married for 53 years, you're looking at this aspirantship for discernment to enter the daughters of St. Francis de Sales? This is not you're leaving your husband and Oh, no. yeah, let's clarify that real quick. No, it's not. Okay. So, you know, St. Francis DeSales teaches that everyday living in whatever your state of life is, whatever your vocation is and including the laity. I mean, this is why it's such a wonderful fit for me is that It's an opportunity to, to grow in my faith and my relationship with Jesus, with which impacts every other relationship that I have. It literally impacts everyone. When I can love God first, The rest of it, just, it's amazing to me how much better everything else is. So, no, I'm not leaving John for the convent. the content. when I first started talking to him about this, I think this is what I want to do. I think he was thinking the same thing. I could just see the scandal rocking, you know, the Catholic church here at Holy Family, like, Kathy Wickham's leaving John after years no. How blissful their marriage was to go join the convent Yeah, no. That would not work very well. Any woman married, single. If this is something that you discern and you desire to have you can have that opportunity. Living in the world in my state of marriage and family But to still be able to grow on my spiritual journey is really what this is all about. And of course, John was all for that, but yeah it's another, it's another step. And, I think I bring a little different perspective than what some of the younger generations you'll interview May have and it's all about where we are in life, right? yeah. I kind of think about it maybe at like as a quilt some of the squares are Full of light and just and very joyful. Some of the squares are a little darker and may represent some other times in life that not so good, but something to be learned from all of that. And I think the light, definitely outweighs the dark. I'm just kind of still building that quilt as I move along with these opportunities to keep growing and having a deeper relationship with Jesus. One of of the things I've, I've heard throughout this conversation is that there's no time where your relationship with God is over. with God stayed stagnant. Right. Even in the dark times there was questioning, there was growing, there was, and I think one of the greatest misconceptions the Catholic Church has is that once you get to a certain stage you get to stay there, right? Like, I pray, I'm okay, I'm done right? So on Sundays after we receive the Eucharist we're charged to go out and change the world. So at your We'll call you a seasoned senior age Thank you. How then do you go out and, and take that charge that comes from the Eucharist so that it doesn't stay within the four walls, but in fact goes out to the world Oh, now you have physically and spiritually partnered with Jesus. I've got him, he's got me. So, that can't help but impact everything that you do that day. And you never know what opportunity is going to be around the corner. What small thing might happen. I mean, that's one of the things, I love reading about the saints, but I I had chosen St. Therese of the Little Flower for my confirmation saint, and I always loved her. My grandmother taught me about her when I was very young, and her little way. I think when we can if we can just do little things well I think the rest just sort of follows. So going out from Mass we're charged with something at that point, and it's important to take that responsibility seriously. I think it's just really being cognizant that God is right there. My guardian angel is right there. I have a lot of people to help me. And what if I was that person, I've been that person that needed help, that needed something, and it always came. How can you not think about those kinds of things? Now, having said that, and my not being perfect, There are those missed opportunities. And so when I do that examination of conscience at night at bedtime thinking about the day and what have I done? What, what did I do well? What did I not do so well? How could I have done that better? And what do I resolve to do? And I always loved, I think it was saint, Seton? Elizabeth Ann Seton. Who said My God, forgive what I have been correct what I am and direct what I shall be. I think that as a part of contrition it's just so fitting and to be open to what opportunities are going to come the next day and that, you know, maybe God will fill my mind during the night with good things. Well, you have shared so much with us today, and I'm so grateful for your time and talent and treasure in this world and for sharing it so freely. And so I just want to, once again, thank you, Kathy, for joining us. And to say that I hope whoever is listening to this, that you will take the opportunity to invite someone to sit next to you in the open seat. Thank you, Katie. And it's, it's been a total honor to be able to be here today and sit with you and have this discussion. And yes, I would highly recommend this to people. You know, it is, it's a bit vulnerable to sit in this seat. However, there's there's a lot that people have to offer and I hope they'll consider and share it. Well, thank you, my friend.
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